Great article, and so necessary. I have listened and/or read both Sproul's and MacArthur's sermons on total depravity. They are sobering and dispel every notion that we can do anything to save ourselves, or that there is anything worth saving in us in our original state.
I tell people, "I was not saved because I am special, however, I am special, and it is purely because God saved me. That specialness is not for me, or about me, it is all by grace and for HIS glory." When I make this statement I understand what I am saying, but most do not. (Thank you Jesus for your illumination!)
Funerals are terrible events for the unredeemed; they are intended to comfort (deceive) the ungodly and pacify them in the belief that "peace" and "rest" are what awaits all who die, simply because they are dead. We hear versions of this viewpoint all the time. People, even Christians, often speak of their departed loved ones as seeing them and hearing (and answering) their prayers! This is fantasy, and pure occultism. Syncretism is thriving today.
Not in a good way, I marvel at the deception Satan has inflicted upon the whole earth. I don't wish Hell upon anyone except for Satan. He has earned what is coming to him. It must have broken God's heart when he rebelled. No, it didn't surprise our Triune and Holy Holy Holy God, but I'm certain it grieved Him, and still does to this day.
Excellent question. In a word, yes. And the distinction matters.
Depravity is the condition; evil is the expression.
Depravity is what we are by nature after the Fall: corrupt in mind, will, and affections, unable to seek God.
Evil is what proceeds from that nature; the thoughts, words, and deeds.
Jesus draws the line Himself. In Mark 7:21-23 the evil comes "out of the heart of man"; the heart is the depraved spring, and evil is the water that flows from it. Genesis 6:5 says it from the other side: "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." The nature first; the evil after.
That is why the pleasant, upright person is still depraved. We don't measure depravity by how much evil someone commits. A man can restrain his evil and remain dead in sin. The kind grandmother is not less depraved than the murderer; she is only more pleasant.
Thad, this: “total depravity means sinners have no ability to do spiritual good …”
Q. Sinners as in “spiritually dead,” or those with a sin nature?
I know a guy who was spiritually dead who organized a charity event to raise money to adopt families during the holidays, to feed them and buy gifts for all members of the family (things needed and fiscally out of reach).
This guy did this more than once.
Not unlike Jesus and/or the true church ministering to the poor.
Even basic scriptures, like “do unto others,” or “if your enemy is hungry” are fulfilled by such an act.
This is what makes acronyms, acrostics, and slogans somewhat dangerous theologically.
The doctrine of depravity isn’t slandering kindness. It’s defining it.
Your friend fed those families, and the need was real. Common grace is real; the image of God in man is real; the lost give excellent gifts every day. The post said as much: total depravity is not the claim that anyone is as wicked as he could be.
But there are two different goods on the table, and the objection blurs them. There is good toward men, and there is spiritual good before God; the kind done from faith, in submission to Christ, for His glory. The first is everywhere. The second, Scripture says, is impossible apart from regeneration. Romans 8:8: “Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” Hebrews 11:6: “without faith it is impossible to please Him.”
Jesus holds both at once. Matthew 7:11: "If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!" Evil men; good gifts; same sentence. He doesn't deny the gift, and He doesn't soften the word evil.
That’s the whole point. A generous, decent, thoroughly unregenerate man isn’t drifting toward God on the strength of his kindness; Romans 3:11 says no one seeks Him. His goodness blesses his neighbor and does nothing for his standing before God.
Which is exactly why he needs a Savior, not a performance review. The gap between real good toward men and the spiritual good that reconciles a man to God is the gap only the cross closes.
Understand your position. I believe the definition cited is faulty. It overlooks passages like this:
“For all who have sinned outside of Torah will also perish outside of Torah, and all who have sinned according to Torah will be judged by Torah. For it is not the hearers of Torah who are righteous before God; rather, it is the doers of Torah who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the Torah, do by nature the things of the Torah, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the Torah. They show that the work of the Torah is written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts switching between accusing or defending them on the day when God judges the secrets of men according to my Good News through Messiah Yeshua.”
Actually, Romans 2 is the foundation of the doctrine, not the exception to it.
Read where Paul is going.
The whole stretch from Romans 1:18 to 3:20 is a courtroom, and Romans 2 is the prosecution of the Gentiles, not their defense. The verdict lands a few verses past your quote: "all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin" (Romans 3:9), so "every mouth may be stopped" (Romans 3:19).
Watch what the conscience does there. The Gentile who "by nature do[es] what the law requires" isn't acquitted; he's left without excuse. Romans 2:15: the conscience "bears witness," and the thoughts "accuse" before they "excuse." The law on the heart is the evidence against him, not his righteousness. And "the doers of the law... will be justified"
(Romans 2:13) is the standard no one meets, which Paul says outright: "by works of the law no human being will be justified" (Romans 3:20).
As for "by nature" Paul uses the same word the other way: "by nature children of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3). By nature man knows the law; by nature man is under wrath. The first is what makes the second just.
Romans 2 convicts the conscience. It never crowns it.
Great article, and so necessary. I have listened and/or read both Sproul's and MacArthur's sermons on total depravity. They are sobering and dispel every notion that we can do anything to save ourselves, or that there is anything worth saving in us in our original state.
I tell people, "I was not saved because I am special, however, I am special, and it is purely because God saved me. That specialness is not for me, or about me, it is all by grace and for HIS glory." When I make this statement I understand what I am saying, but most do not. (Thank you Jesus for your illumination!)
Funerals are terrible events for the unredeemed; they are intended to comfort (deceive) the ungodly and pacify them in the belief that "peace" and "rest" are what awaits all who die, simply because they are dead. We hear versions of this viewpoint all the time. People, even Christians, often speak of their departed loved ones as seeing them and hearing (and answering) their prayers! This is fantasy, and pure occultism. Syncretism is thriving today.
Not in a good way, I marvel at the deception Satan has inflicted upon the whole earth. I don't wish Hell upon anyone except for Satan. He has earned what is coming to him. It must have broken God's heart when he rebelled. No, it didn't surprise our Triune and Holy Holy Holy God, but I'm certain it grieved Him, and still does to this day.
Excellent. So now the question is, is there a distinction to be made between depravity and evil?
Excellent question. In a word, yes. And the distinction matters.
Depravity is the condition; evil is the expression.
Depravity is what we are by nature after the Fall: corrupt in mind, will, and affections, unable to seek God.
Evil is what proceeds from that nature; the thoughts, words, and deeds.
Jesus draws the line Himself. In Mark 7:21-23 the evil comes "out of the heart of man"; the heart is the depraved spring, and evil is the water that flows from it. Genesis 6:5 says it from the other side: "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." The nature first; the evil after.
That is why the pleasant, upright person is still depraved. We don't measure depravity by how much evil someone commits. A man can restrain his evil and remain dead in sin. The kind grandmother is not less depraved than the murderer; she is only more pleasant.
Depravity is why we sin. Evil is the proof.
Thanks for the comment.
Thad, this: “total depravity means sinners have no ability to do spiritual good …”
Q. Sinners as in “spiritually dead,” or those with a sin nature?
I know a guy who was spiritually dead who organized a charity event to raise money to adopt families during the holidays, to feed them and buy gifts for all members of the family (things needed and fiscally out of reach).
This guy did this more than once.
Not unlike Jesus and/or the true church ministering to the poor.
Even basic scriptures, like “do unto others,” or “if your enemy is hungry” are fulfilled by such an act.
This is what makes acronyms, acrostics, and slogans somewhat dangerous theologically.
The doctrine of depravity isn’t slandering kindness. It’s defining it.
Your friend fed those families, and the need was real. Common grace is real; the image of God in man is real; the lost give excellent gifts every day. The post said as much: total depravity is not the claim that anyone is as wicked as he could be.
But there are two different goods on the table, and the objection blurs them. There is good toward men, and there is spiritual good before God; the kind done from faith, in submission to Christ, for His glory. The first is everywhere. The second, Scripture says, is impossible apart from regeneration. Romans 8:8: “Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” Hebrews 11:6: “without faith it is impossible to please Him.”
Jesus holds both at once. Matthew 7:11: "If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!" Evil men; good gifts; same sentence. He doesn't deny the gift, and He doesn't soften the word evil.
That’s the whole point. A generous, decent, thoroughly unregenerate man isn’t drifting toward God on the strength of his kindness; Romans 3:11 says no one seeks Him. His goodness blesses his neighbor and does nothing for his standing before God.
Which is exactly why he needs a Savior, not a performance review. The gap between real good toward men and the spiritual good that reconciles a man to God is the gap only the cross closes.
Understand your position. I believe the definition cited is faulty. It overlooks passages like this:
“For all who have sinned outside of Torah will also perish outside of Torah, and all who have sinned according to Torah will be judged by Torah. For it is not the hearers of Torah who are righteous before God; rather, it is the doers of Torah who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the Torah, do by nature the things of the Torah, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the Torah. They show that the work of the Torah is written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts switching between accusing or defending them on the day when God judges the secrets of men according to my Good News through Messiah Yeshua.”
Romans 2:12-16 TLV
?
Actually, Romans 2 is the foundation of the doctrine, not the exception to it.
Read where Paul is going.
The whole stretch from Romans 1:18 to 3:20 is a courtroom, and Romans 2 is the prosecution of the Gentiles, not their defense. The verdict lands a few verses past your quote: "all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin" (Romans 3:9), so "every mouth may be stopped" (Romans 3:19).
Watch what the conscience does there. The Gentile who "by nature do[es] what the law requires" isn't acquitted; he's left without excuse. Romans 2:15: the conscience "bears witness," and the thoughts "accuse" before they "excuse." The law on the heart is the evidence against him, not his righteousness. And "the doers of the law... will be justified"
(Romans 2:13) is the standard no one meets, which Paul says outright: "by works of the law no human being will be justified" (Romans 3:20).
As for "by nature" Paul uses the same word the other way: "by nature children of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3). By nature man knows the law; by nature man is under wrath. The first is what makes the second just.
Romans 2 convicts the conscience. It never crowns it.